Comments on: Upset by evolution http://www.joelnothman.com/2009/05/31/upset-by-evolution/ Hobbily blogging Tue, 29 Jun 2010 03:07:35 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ariel http://www.joelnothman.com/2009/05/31/upset-by-evolution/comment-page-1/#comment-2670 Ariel Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:15:51 +0000 http://www.joelnothman.com/blog/?p=305#comment-2670 I was present at the YA Chabad dinner and heard Prof Hasofer's speech. I felt that his talk was more suited to an audience of frum Jews with only a high school level science education: that is, he started out with the assumption that Torah is true and "G-d does not play tricks on us", therefore all the secrets of the universe are found in Torah; professionally, unbiased scientific research should be conducted so that we may detect the functionality of the universe thru our own senses. He probably should have come from another angle, perhaps explaining briefly (if that's possible) why the Torah is true etc before analysing science and Darwinian theory. In any case, the main point he made regarding evolution (particularly Darwin's theories) is that it's just bad science. Apparently Darwin himself had a condition in his theory which he claimed that if proven to be true (or false as the case may be), would nullify his entire theory. Prof Hasofer claims that this has indeed been proven, but is conveniently ignored by the powers that be in academe who have a particular philosophical and political bent. Regarding genetic mutation, science has never been able to show an example of a positive mutation, only negative (to which about half a dozen immature men in the audience, including myself asked "what about x-men?"). Evolution claims that we're all derived from a single organism which mutated billions of times eventually branching off in to different speicies. Again, no biologist has ever been able to reproduce this process in a lab - it seems organisms only mutate into different members of the same family. For example, the flu virus adapts to evade anti-biotics, but it remains within the flu family. It does not mutate into chicken pox or herpes (rachmana latzlan), which are completely different species. So that's the gist of Prof Hasofer's talk... Simon - the problem is that most people have not chosen to believe in something else; rather they have never been taught anything else and they should hear all points of view before deciding. I was present at the YA Chabad dinner and heard Prof Hasofer’s speech.
I felt that his talk was more suited to an audience of frum Jews with only a high school level science education:
that is, he started out with the assumption that Torah is true and “G-d does not play tricks on us”, therefore all the secrets of the universe are found in Torah; professionally, unbiased scientific research should be conducted so that we may detect the functionality of the universe thru our own senses.
He probably should have come from another angle, perhaps explaining briefly (if that’s possible) why the Torah is true etc before analysing science and Darwinian theory.
In any case, the main point he made regarding evolution (particularly Darwin’s theories) is that it’s just bad science. Apparently Darwin himself had a condition in his theory which he claimed that if proven to be true (or false as the case may be), would nullify his entire theory. Prof Hasofer claims that this has indeed been proven, but is conveniently ignored by the powers that be in academe who have a particular philosophical and political bent.
Regarding genetic mutation, science has never been able to show an example of a positive mutation, only negative (to which about half a dozen immature men in the audience, including myself asked “what about x-men?”). Evolution claims that we’re all derived from a single organism which mutated billions of times eventually branching off in to different speicies. Again, no biologist has ever been able to reproduce this process in a lab – it seems organisms only mutate into different members of the same family. For example, the flu virus adapts to evade anti-biotics, but it remains within the flu family. It does not mutate into chicken pox or herpes (rachmana latzlan), which are completely different species.

So that’s the gist of Prof Hasofer’s talk…

Simon – the problem is that most people have not chosen to believe in something else; rather they have never been taught anything else and they should hear all points of view before deciding.

]]> By: Simon Holloway http://www.joelnothman.com/2009/05/31/upset-by-evolution/comment-page-1/#comment-2669 Simon Holloway Sun, 31 May 2009 07:56:59 +0000 http://www.joelnothman.com/blog/?p=305#comment-2669 I echo your sentiments <i>precisely</i>. I take no shame at all in my simian ancestry, and think that there is nothing more beautiful and elegant than the theory of evolution, in all of its wide applicability. I didn't go to the talk either, but only because I can't stand apologetics. What's wrong with just believing in Torah because you <i>want</i> to believe in it? Why do people feel that they need to be able to prove it to those who have chosen to believe in something else? I echo your sentiments precisely. I take no shame at all in my simian ancestry, and think that there is nothing more beautiful and elegant than the theory of evolution, in all of its wide applicability. I didn’t go to the talk either, but only because I can’t stand apologetics. What’s wrong with just believing in Torah because you want to believe in it? Why do people feel that they need to be able to prove it to those who have chosen to believe in something else?

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